2017 XC Team Rankings: All Classifications

Well friends, the world championships are officially over which means I can focus again on other things. One of those things? The 2017 Etrain Team Rankings. As I mentioned previously, I’ll be combining the rankings that you guys put up on the blog with my own to create a group team rankings to start the season. Now I only used posts that actually had state wide rankings to create the “commenter” rankings. If you made a note but didn’t actually provide full rankings, I read your note, in most cases I learned something from your note (lots of insightful stuff) and I incorporated that into my thinking for my own rankings, but there was not a reasonable mathematical formula to apply to the rankings for those type of comments. So I left them out. For my own rankings, I only went up to top 10 so if you see an “N/A” for my ranking it could mean anything from 11th to 111th (although I would bet closer to the former).

Anyway, without further ado, here are the top 10 rankings for each classification. Remember to check out the returners cheat sheets as well as the bulletin board material post for lots more feedback on just about every team around the state.

Honorable Mention: Masterman (ET: 10, Comments: N/A)

10. Elk Lake (ET: N/A, Comments: 8)
Elk Lake is a consistent, excellent program with some proven talent in Peyton Jones and Cody Oswald. They were both top 50 finishers in the state last year. The difficult question for Elk Lake will, of course, be making it out of their loaded district as Montrose is looming as a state title contender once again.

9. Riverview (ET: 9, Comments: 10)
The WPIAL has been consistently strong in A, having the top two teams in the state as recently as 2014. Riverview has spent the past few seasons gaining experience on the state course and their front runners are improving at the right time. Ben Barnes shines as the returning state medalist, but there could be a breakout from Michael Komaniak or Ryan Cecil this year that takes this team to another level.

8. Seneca (ET: 8, Comments: 9)
Seneca will be an interesting team to watch this upcoming fall. They lose the three key components of their state title contending squads in the Myers twins and Adam Hanes, but they do return a lot of other quality pieces who spent time developing under the Seniors leadership. The question becomes, will this team continue to move forward without their stars or will they struggle to find an identity? Personally, I think this team is going to continue to excel and win the district once again, however, it’s a tall order to ask for a team that loses it’s big three. I think Jake Schneider is the name to watch on this roster, but don’t sleep on Brock Smith either.

7. NE Bradford (ET: 6, Comments: 6)
The District 4 powerhouse is still probably my pick to make states, but they will get everything they can handle from Southern Columbia. I like the depth, I like the potential for some of their young guys to step up (especially some of the younger brothers on the roster), but they will have an uphill battle just to make the championships. Zak Smith looks like a sleeper pick for a state medal, but Mosier or Moore (or someone else we don’t know) will need to become a top 50 guy as well if this team is going to continue a remarkable top 5 streak.

6. Southern Columbia (ET: 5, Comments: 7)
I’m very high on this squad as exhibited by my top 5 ranking. They showed at Foundation last fall that all they need to be a top 5 team in A is an opportunity. Ethan Knoebel has the potential to be a top 10 guy in the state (maybe even top 5) after a terrific sophomore campaign and Nick Kuzo is no slouch as a #2. They return a hungry pack that has been chomping at the bit to rematch NEB and punch a ticket to states.

5. Jenkintown (ET: 7, Comments: 4)
It’s hard to discount a team that returns two state medalists, including a guy who was top 10 in the state as a sophomore in Jack Miller. Jenkintown seems on the way up, but they need to prove they can restock the back end of their depth. They lost some key pieces to graduation and, with small schools, having depth is not always a guarantee, even at the top programs. However, their front running and experience makes me feel pretty confident about another top 10 finish for this squad, assuming they survive the challenge from District rivals Christopher Dock.

4. Penns Valley (ET: 4, Comments: 5)
I’m super high on this team. I’m a big believer in Penns Valley, a squad that has been consistently improving each year, led by their all-star Chris Colwell. Colwell and Bierley give this squad one of the best 1-2 punches in the state and the pack behind them has the potential to be excellent. They’ve got experience, they’ve got depth and, if one guy makes a jump, they could be competing for team medals in November.

3. Montrose (ET: 3, Comments: 3)
I’m going to sound like a broken record, but Montrose was really good last year. Like really, really good. In a pretty solid district, they absolutely dominated the district meet. They had depth stretching past the varsity squad and into JV and they handled a loaded group in their first appearance in A. However, at states they didn’t have their best day and they were on the outside looking in for the medals. To compound that, they lost a lot of their firepower out front in Mead and Brewer. I still feel good about their chances this year considering their remarkable depth for a small school, plus their extra experience and motivation from their defeat last year.

2. Elk County Catholic (ET: 2, Comments: 2)
Elk County Catholic doesn’t get a ton of talk behind Winchester Thurston, but people are starting to notice how good this program is. They got a #1 vote over WT in the preseason rankings and last year’s runner-ups have caught my attention as well. I think Ben Hoffman could be a superstar this season after a terrific freshman season and his fellow rising sophomore Isaac Wortman could be a top 35 type as well. The top 4, on paper, is the best in the state. If they get a #5 and their sophomores can handle the spotlight, look out.

1. Winchester Thurston (ET: 1, Comments: 1)
It’s easy to see why Winchester Thurston is the #1 team on both of our rankings. They’ve won two state titles in three years. They absolutely dominated every small school race they competed in last year. They’ve put 3 guys on the medal stand in each of the past two seasons as well. With three top 50 guys coming back and some other young pieces returning as well, it’s hard to bet against this proven program. However, we’ve seen that even the best programs can slip when injuries come into play. WT knows all about that from their 2014 and 2015 runs. Hopefully this team stays healthy and we get to see what they can do. Also, keep your eyes out for a breakout freshman to come from this roster. They’ve produced some of the best in the state the past few years, including Tristan Forsythe, who is now a senior looking to grab his first individual title on the XC trails.

Honorable Mention: Pope John Paul (ET: 10, Commenters: N/A), Milton (ET: N/A, Commenters: 9), General McLane (ET: N/A, Commenters: 10)

10. Central Cambria (ET: 9, Commenters: N/A)
Central Cambria didn’t get a lot of love from the commenters in the build up to these rankings, but I’m a fan of this squad’s potential. They are still very young and potentially inexperienced, but there is too much talent here to ignore. My projected top 5 for this squad includes two sophomores and two juniors, any of which could be the breakout stars of 2017. Plus, I think this district in general could take a nice step forward. Most of the top guys return including Garrett Baublitz and that should allow the big names to push each other and work toward faster times throughout the season. Just ask District 3 how much that can make a difference.

9. Greensburg Salem (ET: N/A, Commenters: 6)
This team has officially become a household name after a terrific 2016-2017 that included a WPIAL championship and a 7:51 4x800. However, Greensburg Salem has lost a key piece to that success in Frankie King and the GS boys will need to add to their depth if they are going to replace him. The good news is they have one of the best top 3s in the state in the Bindas and Mark Brown, all three of which are entering their junior years after huge track success. If they get a 4-5, look out.

8. Grove City (ET: 5, Commenters: N/A)
Although this team is a year in and year out contender, I don’t think they made it onto any of the commenter rankings this offseason. Yes, it’s easy to forget about these guys because they missed out on states last year, but let’s keep in mind this program is historically always a contender for a top 5 spot in the state (and usually more). Plus, it’s not like they don’t bring back any talent. Most notably, they have Jonah Powell, a potential state champion candidate in 2017, but also Tyler Quinn, Mason Murray and Luke Owrey. The disappointment of missing states last year is probably still fresh in this group’s mind and it wouldn’t surprise me if they use that as fuel for a run into the top 3 at states.

7. Holy Redeemer (ET: 8, Commenters: 7)
Holy Redeemer was one of the pleasant surprises of district week last year and backed it up with a great run at states. They have a couple rising juniors with a ton of talent in Zapusek and Volpetti who they will lean on heavily, but they also return some nice depth to round out the roster. This squad should really benefit from going up against top teams like Dallas, Tunkhannock and Berwick on a consistent basis in District 2 and, even in what should be a loaded year for the AA classification, it’s hard to imagine this team outside the top 10 given their talent.

6. New Castle (ET: 6, Commenters: 8)
I really like this team. They were sneaky good last year, nearly defeating South Fayette (who went on to be 3rd at states) at WPIALs. They had a terrific pack last year and return a good chunk of it. Rising sophomore Anthony Litrenta has the potential to be a star this year, but the real wildcard name to watch is Le’Shawn Huff. This kid surprised everybody with a 1600 victory at the AAA WPIAL meet last spring and could be a real force in XC as he enters his senior season. If he does become great, that will just make this intriguing core even more dynamic.

5. Harbor Creek (ET: 7, Commenters: 4)
Harbor Creek returns 3 state medalists. 3! That should be all you need to know right there about this program. However, they do need to solidify the back half of the roster. Plus, it will be nice to have a little insurance policy so that there isn’t too much pressure for all of the top pieces to run out of their mind. Harbor Creek is a strong program and I think they have the potential to bolster the back half of the lineup and become top 5 contenders again, but nothing is a given. I’m excited to see how this team looks when they start the season. Regardless, that top 3 is so impressive, I have a hard time betting against these guys. They may end up with 3 in the top 15 this year.

4. Wyomissing (ET: 4, Commenters: 5)
I’m very excited about Wyomissing’s potential. They just barely missed my top 3. Joe Cullen is already a star as the reigning district champion so the key for this team is their other pieces. Rising sophomore Ben Kuhn has shown flashes of brilliance already and he only just finished his freshman year. Matt Driben could be an x-factor if he jumps into the XC line up after a monster track season. Plus, Wyomissing will have a great measuring stick in house in York Suburban that should help push them and show them what it takes to be elite. They have to prove that their potential can be realized, but the upside here is undeniable.

3. South Fayette (ET: 3, Commenters: 3)
South Fayette had one of the best races of the weekend at states last year. They finished 3rd in a loaded AA race and nearly stole team medals away from York Suburban. One of the more obvious keys to their success was the excellent front running of Sam Snodgrass and Aaron Pfeil (now graduated), but what took them over the top was their consistent pack running to round out the top 5. Silas Mays and Michael Cusick will have to bring that same clutch factor to the 2017 season if this team wants to make up for the big whole left by Pfeil’s graduation. I’m excited to see if they can take over the WPIAL or if another squad will rise to challenge the early season favorite.

2. York Suburban (ET: 2, Commenters: 2)
1. Dallas (ET: 1, Commenters: 1)
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: Dallas and York Suburban are two terrific teams, returning a lot of fantastic runners for programs with state championship pedigree. It’s unbelievable how strong these two squads have been year in and year out for the past 4 seasons! Dallas is going for a crazy strong three-peat and yet, if Dallas wasn’t around, York Suburban would be the heavy favorites for a four-peat! Although I think Dallas is better right now (and they have the advantage of winning the last two titles), I really like York Suburban’s early season odds for knocking them off. The difference this year will likely be the #5 spot. Both teams lost a key senior contributor, so someone else will need to step up and fill that role. Even with all the firepower out front, this is a great reminder that XC usually comes down to the unsung heroes.

Honorable Mention: North Penn (ET: 8, Commenters: N/A), Southern Lehigh (ET: N/A, Commenters: 9), Abington Heights (ET: N/A, Commenters: 10)

10. State College (ET: 6, Commenters: N/A)
As you’ve probably guessed, the team rankings are a bit all over the place as we enter the season. State College, who is #5 on my board right now, is on the outside looking in for a lot of people. The #5 spot may be a little bold, but I think it’s a fairly wide open discussion and I’ll hang my hat on a team that 1) has two potential all-star talents to front run, 2) has proven they can put together a top 5-7 program with some consistency, and 3) has good experience. However, State College still needs to prove they can bolster their back end depth enough outlast some of the District One powers, needs to hopefully keep everyone healthy and, most importantly, outlast Mifflin County in what should be an exciting district match up.

North Penn was the other team that almost made this spot on the list. I love the North Penn upside (excellent core, younger guys on the rise), but I just need to see it from start to finish this season. I think the peak for this squad is a top 5 finish in the state, but they could just easily be fighting for their life just to make it to Hershey.

9. Butler (ET: 4, Commenters: N/A)
As far as I could tell, Butler has only received one vote from the commenters and it was a #10 spot. I guess I’m missing something here as I see the Bull Dogs (I make up team mascots so I apologize when this is wrong) as a Cinderella story in 2017. This squad returns a fantastic core. They have a great front runner. They are confident, experienced and peak at the right time. There doesn’t seem like a lot of downside. That being said, Butler is in a district where it will be tricky just to advance to Hershey. They also weren’t a top 10 team last year at states and they aren’t the household name that other top programs are. Maybe those factors will end up mattering and maybe that’s why they haven’t gotten quite as much commenter love, but I’m on board.

8. Henderson (ET: N/A, Commenters: 4)
Henderson is basically the opposite of Butler. I had Henderson just outside my top 10 while the Warriors were one of just two programs to show up on every list that was presented by you commenters (the other being CR North). They have championship pedigree, a great front runner and a nice core that was a top 10 team in the state last year. At least one guy has to step up if they want top 5 in the state and, ideally, they need 3 guys around the top 50. The thing is the 5 district one teams to qualify for states have been top 10 at states every year since the move to three classifications. Henderson has made states every year since the move to three classifications. So it makes sense that this team is in the top 10.

7. North Allegheny (ET: 10, Commenters: 6)
North Allegheny is another team with a legendary reputation. Last year they took 6th in the state and it was a huge surprise to see them outside the top 5. Pretty wild to think about considering they didn’t have many guys who could clock sub 17 minute times for 5k and they still jumped up to 6th in final standings. NA has graduated so many elite guys over the years and the other top programs in the state have been loading up with young talent, so it’s reasonable to expect these guys to slip. But that’s not how the Tigers have operated. They have always been district title contenders and near top 5 in the state. Bet against NA at your own risk.

6. Mount Lebanon (ET: 9, Commenters: 7)
On paper, this Mount Lebanon team looks really strong. They’ve got 5 sub 17 guys back. They have rising sophomore who made states as a freshman last season. The track times posted by this group were excellent including multiple guys in the low 4:30s or near 10 flat for one and two miles respectively. If this were a district one team, they’d probably be getting more hype on here. However, Lebo has struggled at districts and the WPIAL is loaded at the top this season. Personally, I’d love to see them atop the podium in Coopers, proving to everyone they’ve exercised their demons, but it’s a long way to go between now and districts.

5. Shanahan (ET: 7, Commenters: 5)
When this team is clicking, it’s something special to behold. At districts last year, when everyone was coming around to be healthy and focused, Shanahan looked excellent with 5 returners under 17 minutes. On the track, when the team was ready to roll, the 4x8 grabbed a surprise indoor state medal without their best runner. There’s so much talent on this roster including the obvious super star in Josh Hoey, but also some lesser known stand outs like Logan Yoquinto. The former AA school isn’t quite as deep as many of their AAA counterparts so they need to be firing on all cylinders to keep their hold on this ranking, but the talent is undeniable. Jack Ettien, Jonah Hoey and Jon McGrory will be the swing voters this year. If they can get to the low 16s, this team will be really good.

4. LaSalle (ET: 3, Commenters: 8)
I think this LaSalle squad is being slept on hard. Yes, they lose a lot of key pieces from last year’s team, but what you can’t underestimate is this team’s depth. At the ’16 state meet, LaSalle’s top two runners had off days and they still rallied and got 5th overall with a tight pack. They return “just” 3 varsity guys but they are two talented rising sophomores (imagine how good you are to make LaSalle’s varsity as a frosh?) and an all-star in reigning district champ Evan Addison. If you look down their track roster there is a ton of potential as well. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if LaSalle is in the state title discussion by October.

3. DT West (ET: 5, Commenters: 3)
Well, it’s official. Downingtown West has reached “elite program” status. In the past, people have said Henderson, North Allegheny, CR North and others have been praised for their consistent success, regardless of returning talent. Those schools are typically lauded in preseason rankings without needing to look at the roster. Well, DT West has entered that realm. The commenters ranked this school 3rd and I gave them a top 5 spot despite the fact that they return just 1 varsity runner from their 3rd place team in the state. And, although I think Tyler Rollins is going to be very good this year, he wasn’t a top 50 guy in AAA and I don’t believe he would have been an individual state qualifier out of District One. Yet still, we all think this team is going to be good again this year.

Here’s the thing, despite DT West’s losses, they have plenty of talent coming back. This school was incredibly deep last year down to the JV and the freshman teams in elite invitationals. And guys like Rollins, Kaiser, Sewall and Chamoun all put down serious marks on the track that indicate they could be excellent pieces in a run at states again this year. So basically, I’m perfectly comfortable with the ranking by the commenters. Shout out to DT West and welcome to the elite programs club. Now go out and back up the reputation.

2. Seneca Valley (ET: 2, Commenters: 2)
It was a huge 2016-2017 for Seneca Valley. They toppled North Allegheny at WPIALs in a decade defining event and then turned around and became the districts top 4x8 squad with multiple school record runs at states. And get this-they bring back basically everybody who made those achievements possible. Seneca Valley is very legit and has an ascending 1-2 punch in juniors Sam Owori and Seth Ketler. They also bring back Alex Dixon and Christian Resch who were top 25 guys in the WPIAL last season. Andrew Balla, Luke Bellack, Adam Owori and Aidan Domencic each showed flashes of potential to step in a become a strong #5 runner (or perhaps more). I really like this team and think they can be gold medalists in November.

However, there will be some pressure now that they are on top. Seneca Valley will have a target on their back and the rest of the WPIAL (and the state) will be out to topple this budding powerhouse. I’m sure North Allegheny is hungry for a rematch and Butler would love to beat SV to establish themselves as a true contender. How will they handle the pressure of expectation? Will the juniors be ready to lead the team now that Trey Razanauskas is graduated? Those are perhaps the more pressing questions for this squad as clearly, the talent and pedigree is on the roster.

1. CR North (ET: 1, Commenters: 1)
The unanimous preseason #1 is the defending state champions from CR North. Back to back champions aren’t rare: we’ve seen them in 2012-2013 and 2007-2008 in AAA. Dallas is fresh off back to back titles themselves in AA. So it wouldn’t be a jaw dropper for a team with the consistent success of CRN to grab another gold in 2017. They have plenty of front running talent to get the job done as Ryan Campbell is a state title contender, Sam Early is an ascending state medalist and Ethan Koza is a jack of all trades 16 flat guy. It’s actually the depth that could be the biggest concern as, after Kevin Ehrgott, they don’t return a lot of low 16 types.

I’ll tell you this right now, CRN will likely not look like a title team for the first month of the season. This squad is notorious for looking (relatively) flat early before turning it on down the stretch to produce top 5 type results. Plenty of teams know how to peak at the right time, but perhaps none peak so dramatically as CR North does, going from left for dead to title contender in the blink of an eye.  So feel free to jump off the bandwagon if you’d like during the early season, but remember that come late October, CR North will be ready to chase the title.


  1. That last paragraph had to have been written by #1 CRN fan Forrest K.

    1. i'm actually really nervous about crn this year and far more skeptical than i've been in past years. yes this team has an incredible top 3, and Ergott has shown with his 16:19/10:07 that he's ready to be a low or potentially sub 16 guy at Lehigh. however, he had a really tough day on the hills of hershey last year.

      more important (and worrisome) is the immense pressure for a 5th man. my senior year on the team had a similar issue (but we didn't have a 4th runner either). the high competition of the squad and the culture of doing very well can break people down, especially younger guys. training too hard and getting injured is a very real possibility. (this happened my senior year where myself and several other teammates were injured or fell ill during the course of the season which greatly hindered our ability to train consistently). so the immense pressure is there to do well this season and for someone to step up as a 5th man... but it's more pressure than that! CRN has finally earned and won a state title for the first time since 1999. they graduated two very important seniors in keller and haas. and now their top 4 runners are seniors. this fight for a 5th man is not just for this season, but for the very foundations of CRN running as contributors for a future team. And the future, to be painfully honest, is quite bleak. lets go through this list:

      -- Matt Mullen (JR): as a freshman he showed flashes of strong potential with PRs of 17:23/4:51 1600m PR, but he finished his sophomore year with PR's of just 17:19/4:47 (and did worse consecutive weeks at conferences and districts).
      -- Jake Boyd (JR): Boyd's 'progress' (or lack there-of) looks very similar to Mullen. As a freshman he ran an impressive 18:15 at Leagues, but as a sophomore he also made just a 4 second improvement (18:11). His 2:06.91 as a sophomore shows he has some strength and speed that is usually lacking in younger CRN runners, but i don't think this indicates success on the trails this fall.
      -- CJ Haas (JR): i was really excited about Haas esp with the massive improvements his brother made during his XC and track career (esp senior year). but remember that Tim went to states all 4 years! CJ, much like Tim, has struggled his first two years on the track to produce anything impressive. However, as a freshman, CJ ran 18:21 at Leagues, but this year he was only able to muster an 18:29 clocking.
      -- Brandon Pfister (JR): Pfister is probably the most interesting rising junior on this roster. Yes, Matt Mullen probably has the most talent and certainly the best PR's in XC, but Pfister has some momentum under him. Pfister didn't run XC as a freshman and clocked just 18:41 at Leagues as a sophomore, however, on the track he made some major jumps in the spring. He ran just 2:34 for the 800m as a freshman, but ended his sophomore season with PR's of 2:07/4:47 (and more impressively he ran just 5:20 indoors!).
      -- John Davis (SO): Not a member of the 2019 class, but Davis gives some hope for the future youngsters of CRN. Nothing like a Campbell, Emery, or Wilson, but Davis clocked a solid 10:48 as a freshman for the 3200m on the track this past spring. for those keeping track, Brian Arita (2014 state XC medalist for North) ran just a PR of 10:32 as a sophomore. Davis hasn't logged many races, but he could be the future of this team.

      i also wonder when coach Dave Marrington will retire. He has now earned the illusive state title and Ryan Campbell could very well be his first individual state champion since 1999. (Keith Capecci being the closest in 2006 with a second place finish). Would such an event (or another state title win) be the catalyst for Marrington to retire on top? I'd like to think he will stay much longer, but just some things that have been on my mind.


    2. Gabe Wilson (Ross's little brother) is a freshman this year. Be interesting to see how he progresses...

  2. I know CRN is a high-mileage team, so they aren't gonna throw down fast times until October.

  3. Interesting, you have 4 WPIAL teams in the top 9. Which one do you think isn't going to make states? I think Seneca Valley is the only guarantee. NA lacks a number 5 guy for now and Mt. Lebanon has the curse of Coopers Lake. Butler seems to peek at the right time and returns a solid group from last year.
    P.S. I believe Butler is the Golden Tornadoes, but I like the sound of the Bull dogs too. lol

  4. How can Henderson be ranked 8th? I get the history of the program but they have one guy who broke 16:00, 9:45 or 4:30. They're not a top 10 team this year.

    1. Agree. They ain't got anything strong but their name. (Except Smucker).

    2. Really this verification process is ruining your comment portion.

    3. Agree, the verification process slows down discussions which slows down the blog significantly. It's like when you're doing a track workout and the football, soccer or lacrosse coaches or parents wander across the track completely oblivious to what's going on around them. It kind of slows down the momentum.

    4. I don't see them making states this year, they're just to thin. WCE has a better chance.

    5. This was the case last year but in the end they made states and even got 8th place.

    6. That's only because Rustin had a bad race at districts.

    7. CBW is a top 10 team and the 5 team D1 limit is a travesty because the number 6 team in D1 almost always is one of the top 10 in PA but doesn't get to run at Hershey. (ie Spring Ford 15' & 16')

  5. Rustin worked hard to peak at Chesmonts last year. Then according to some on this site, all experienced DOMS 3 weeks later. Henderson apparently worked to peak at Hershey. It's a difference in coaching.

    1. Most teams go for championships but some go for appearances at meets and top 10's. Rustin won the 2016 Chesmont championships. What did Henderson win last year? Yes, it's a difference in coaching.

    2. Years from now no one will remember that DWest and Henderson ran their JV squads at Chesmont's to allow Rustin to win a Chesmont championship. No one other than the Rustin team that is; who cheered DWest and Henderson on at Hershey from the sidelines. To each their own.

    3. What did Dwest win last year, the Westtown invitational? If they underestimated their competition and couldn't get their line-up straight for their league championship that's on them. Years from now the 2016 championship banner will still be hanging at Rustin. It's another difference in coaching.

    4. It's not Rustin's fault that DWest and Henderson ran their JV squads. In the end Rusin's varsity had the last laugh prooving that they were in fact better than DWest's JV squad. Some teams are happy with NIT championships, some teams seek national championships. It's a difference in coaching.

    5. Dwest and WCH didn't have a remote shot at winning a national championship last year. They didn't have a remote shot of winning States or even districts. So as it turns out, they won nothing. Anyone at Chesmont last year saw they weren't happy after that race. They thought they could win it by resting guys and Rustin made it backfire on them big time. About the only this shows is that maybe they were seriously concerned about DOMS and 18 days isn't enough recovery for their varsity.

    6. This DOMS stuff is BS

    7. Are we still beating up dwest and Henderson for not running their varsity teams at chesmonts last season? If I recall correctly they were both top 5 at districts and top 10 in the state. Maybe other teams should be spending more time learning how they keep such strong programs going year after year instead of whining about who their coaches chose to run and why. Here's to a great 2017 xc season!

    8. There is valid concern that if league championships aren't considered worthy of serious competition and are is treated like an unimportant scrimmage by some teams, that administrations will eliminate or restrict it. So everyone pays for the actions of a few.

    9. In just 15 days CRN varsity won their league, districts and states all while managing to avoid DOMS. They've got a great chance to do it again this year.

    10. I think Cinder was using an NCAA basketball analogy; comparing a Chesmont championship to a college basketball team winning the NCAA NIT tournament; which is a tournament held for teams not talented enough to get into the real 64 team March madness tournament. I'm assuming Cinder means some teams would rather make it to the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament every year rather than win the meaningless NIT tournament.

    11. Oakbourne relays is 10 days away. Will teams run their varsity or will they hold back to focus on districts? (just kidding) There's a lot of big races only a few weeks out, things are going to heat up real fast.

    12. Teams should run Oakbourne relays provided the DOMS from running two - not just one, but TWO - races in one afternoon doesn't interfere with the team's success in their local conference schedule.

  6. League championships presently are unimportant meets, less worthy of serious competition than other larger open meets. The solution is to make league championships a qualifier for districts.

  7. I'm from the west side of the state where league and county meets aren't that big of a deal. The main ones are the Midwestern Athletic Conference and the TSTCA meet. I believe Washington and Westmoreland County host their own meets, but they are normally small. At the Westmoreland meet, Mark Provenzo won over Eric Kennedy of Kiski. (Kennedy placed 3rd at WPIALs, so its not like he had no competition or anything). Greensburg Salem took home the team title at the same meet. At the MAC meet, Skolnekovich and his QV squad both took home the gold. And finally, at TSTCA we we saw Beveridge win over Conboy an Owori. The top 3 teams of NA, SV, and Butler would all make the state meet a few weeks later. And once again it wasn't like the field lacked depth. Many of the top runners in the District and all of the best teams, including Mt. Lebanon were at the meet.

    At this point I'm just rambling. Here's my point in a nutshell; You can run well at your league meet and not ruin your post season aspirations. I'm tired of all these comments making excuses or giving reasons why certain teams didn't do well at districts. Unless you happen to be on one of these teams, you don't know what kind of injuries they had, what kind of tapering they did for these meets, or anything like that.

    I understand that some teams want to win a league title because it gives them bragging rights for the next year. Obviously states is the focus for most teams,(Or districts for teams who are on the brink of qualifying for states). I think that it takes a long time for people to recover from a 5k, but 18 days is ridiculous. I've known who PR on a Saturday meet then recover to run another PR on the next Saturday.

  8. Depends where you're from. District 1 doesn't seem to care about league meets because they are prepping for a tough district meet.
    Our league meet (Lancaster-Lebanon) has always been a prestigious meet to win - individually and team. Think Craig Miller, Vince McNally, Nathan Henderson. And Hempfield butting heads with Penn Manor or Cedar Crest.

  9. This doesn't relate to anything in this thread, but I wanted to throw an idea out.

    Etrain, how would you feel about creating some sort of comparison system for XC courses/meets? Since every course is different, it would be useful to be able to take someone's time and convert it into a time that works across the board (same idea as Speed Ratings, but this would be much more informal). I'm thinking we use the states course as the baseline/reference point.

    For instance, from my experience, the updated Red White and Blue course (Schenley Park) is about 30-40 seconds quicker than the new Hershey course. Cooper's Lake is roughly 15-20 seconds faster than Hershey. The idea is that we get a bunch of people to comment with their own subjective conversions, agree on a consensus, and then have an idea of how fast an individual performance is on a known course (to most people). Hopefully, we cover just about every major meet throughout the season so we can judge each runner's time.

    Again, just an idea. But I think this will be real useful, especially as XC starts back up and we don't know how credible breakout performances really are (flashing back to David Endres going like 15:45 in the 1st meet last year). Let me know what you think!

    -Jiminy Cricket

    1. I really like this idea. Think it's a cool idea and, with some data over time we may be able to have a scientific approach to the formulas. I'll put together a post to start gathering opinions and in the meantime, see how easy it is to compile data. A shared spreadsheet may help with this too.

  10. Milesplit actually lists a course adjustment for each XC course. It attempts to list a time adjustment depending on your 5k time. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it's a start. It could be used to adjust apples to oranges to apples to apples.

    For example here is the Lehigh XC Course Rating
    The higher the number the more difficult the course statistically. Conversion Table
    15:00 -21 seconds
    16:00 -22
    17:00 -23
    18:00 -25
    19:00 -26
    20:00 -28
    21:00 -29
    22:00 -30
    23:00 -32
    24:00 -33
    25:00 -35
    26:00 -36