When you factor in all 3 seasons in addition to team qualifying/relays it really depletes the list quickly.
For example, I started by taking a look at my own team during my 4 years in high school. We had a really good team in that window and we made states in XC twice in 2007 and 2008 so take out all the varsity members from that team. We also had a 4x4 and 4x8 qualify for indoor states in 2010 and we ran a "B" team in the 4x8 to let Sam Ellison pursue individual medals.
So when you factor in all of that, I'm not sure how many guys are left. We had a 16:50s guy who never ended up running at XC states, but he didn't do any track, only running the one season. We also had something like a 2:05ish/17 flat guy who never ended up competing at a state meet. But honestly, many of the other guys who trained hard within the squad got a shot somewhere. It's just the advantage of being on a successful team.
So I looked for some other methods. I went to the district results and many of those runners who hit the SQS but didn't make it to states had made it before. Boucher had qualified indoors and the previous outdoors in the 4x8, Nelson indoors and in XC, Wolfinger indoors, Murray indoors and XC.
The guy that stood out here was Jimmy Cook from Rustin. It seems like he has never qualified for a state meet despite finishing 46th at districts in XC and running 4:22/9:43 this year.
Not sure, but it looks like that 4:22.19 might be the fastest PR for someone who hasn't competed at states and I suspect, Cook was probably on the mind of the person who made the original comment.
Sticking in the Chesmont, I believe West Chester East's Zach Trama may also be eligible for inclusion in this group. The year after he graduated East made states in XC, but before that he was a leader who brought the team along with a sub 9:30 3200m and some strong XC performances. I think he was one of the first men out in 2011 from the XC qualifiers.
Out west, Shane Burkhart has an impressive resume, especially for XC, for a guy who never qualified for states (as far as I can tell). His progression is also super impressive as he went from a 23 minute type guy to a borderline state qualifier in the 5k out of one of the most difficult districts to qualify for (only 15 individuals go for AAA compared to 25 for D1). His PRs at graduation this year look to be 16:34/9:43 with an 8th place finish at WPIALs in track and 24th place finish in cross.
What of my close family friends John Hartsough may also qualify for this list depending on if he qualified on a relay at some point during his career. He was part of some of the good Abington programs but stepped up into a top role after they graduated their state qualifying crew. Hartsough just missed states in XC in 2011 and also ran 1:58.39. He had strong range up to 16:09 for 5k with sub 9:50 ability and a 4:32 mark as well.
As far as I can tell, out of Seniors/recent graduates, those are some of the top names that I can find with no state championship experience. If you add in certain restrictions the list may change. I also admit I may have missed someone important or forgotten a state run from someone I mentioned above, so feel free to investigate for yourself and share your thoughts!
And congrats to these runners! Awesome careers and some nice post collegiate marks as well for guys like Trama who has been killing it over at E Town. Sometimes you are better off not peaking in high school!
Hope this answers your question whoever asked!
Agree you're better off not peaking in high school. How many of the top guys continue to progress? Especially from the top programs. Most of those guys got burnt out and don't even run any more. Coyle and Lefebure are the only ones recently who come to mind as getting better after high school.
ReplyDeleteNate McClafferty broke 4 in the mile this year, Ned Willig ran 1:47 a week or two ago and beat Ben Blankenship. Besides them (and Coyle/Lefebure), none of the top names from the high school scene have done much in college/beyond. Especially not the Henderson runners who burn out in college 99.9% of the time
ReplyDeleteIsn't Collins the only varsity runner from those state championship teams still running in college
DeleteCollins (Cincinnati), Stratman (Pitt), and Moy (Navy) are all still running in college while others like Chaborek (Pitt), Russell (PSU), Barchet (Colorado) no longer race as part of a school roster. Stratman and Collins have made nice improvements. Moy has struggled a bit in the two meets he has run, but when you are in the Navy it's a different story.
DeleteMake sure to look at the NCAA page soon to see my comments and analysis about PA grads and how I see them performing in college!
Tony Russell (PSU) is not running anymore??????????????
DeleteSorry. Typo. I have been told by multiple people that Russell is no longer running at PSU. He did not run indoors or outdoors this past year. He is, however, still listed on the PSU roster. The website has yet to be updated for the new recruiting class. Those are the facts/information I have. Take that as you will. However, I will personally believe that Russell will not be returning to the PSU program.
DeleteI understand people have stories/rumors on this topic, but without a name attached to the comments for accountability we can't let rumors without evidence spread. I know that sucks but it's unfortunately the way we have to be.
DeleteEllison, Fischer, Burkhardt, Shearn, Ryan Gil come to mind off the top of my head as names that haven't been mentioned but all had pretty good success after high school ... There have also been some lesser names who have made great strides like Ivo Milic, Gillette, Kehl and Flott
ReplyDeleteI watched the interview with John Lewis at Nationals and the announcer managed to butcher the pronunciation of Cheltenham. Then he went on to refer to the event as the 800 meter “dash”. So my instinct was to discount that announcer as a total hack. But then I realized that I’d seen Lewis take the 800 out in 24/51 before, which is obviously beyond ridiculous. Yet at nationals I heard he went out in 23/49. That’s just sick. No seriously, who takes a pro 800 out in 49, let alone a high school event? Maybe that announcer had it right calling is a dash, because Lewis takes the 800 out like it’s a sprint.
ReplyDeleteNow I know it’s summer time and everyone has sort of moved on with graduations and XC base training. And I realize Lewis isn’t a distance runner in the true sense as it pertains to this blog. But the 800 is a distance event and that said, I'm still soaking in what he did. He took an 800 out in 49! I know I already said that but I’m still having difficulty believing it. Etrain is a superb historian and analyst, but he is also our resident mathematician. So I’ll let him correct my guesses at these other race equivalents but that’s probably like taking the 1600 out in 1:52, or the 3200 out in 4:08. His time in the first lap at nationals would have earned him a medal in the 400 at states. This is one guy I'd expect to get better in college, especially if he can run a more balanced 800.
- RJJL
I wonder what kind of training he is doing, especially his mileage. If he is doing low mileage and is training as more of a long sprinter, he could make some massive strides with a mileage increase. And right now he could definitely go at least 1:47 if he ran perfect 800 splits (positive splitting by 1.5 to 3 seconds) instead of positive splitting by 8-10 seconds.
DeleteLewis's potential is big in my opinion. Not sure how many true 800m runners he has ever trained with over the years at Cheltenham (which is a sprint powerhouse) and I can't imagine his mileage is anything significant as referenced above.
DeleteGoing out in 49 low is faster than the DL went out today at 800m. He's running sub Rudisha pace that opening lap. It's absurd to me that he can hold on at all from there. Going out in 49 is probably equivalent to like 1:53ish in the mile and maybe like 4:05ish in the 5k? I mean those are all world record pace basically so you could argue it's similar stuff
Very interested to see the next chapter here
Clemson only has 5 or 6 people that ran faster than his high school PR ever in program history, so it's not an elite level mid distance program. He will also be 3 seconds faster than their current best 800m runner. Now maybe they have a good coach and just don't get a whole lot of mid distance talent, but I don't know either way. Can anyone comment on the coach's philosophy at Clemson or his previous track record (pun not intended).
DeleteI actually talk about this in my post in the NCAA section. Mark Elliot is currently the head coach for Clemson after coaching at LSU for about 20 seasons. He's entering his...3rd year at Clemson? I'd have to check on that but I know he is relatively new. That LSU program had multiple NCAA championships and countless All-American sprinters/mid distance runners in that time frame. He was the reason why LSU is an established sprinting and 400 powerhouse today. While the longer distances haven't been thrilling, the 400's for Clemson have been very impressive with three guys at 46.47 or faster (Green ran 45.82 as a frosh). So the potential is there and it may take time to see how the rest of the program develops.
DeleteDoes anyone know where Mcdevitt is going or if he is even running in college?
ReplyDeletePSU
DeleteThanks Etrain this is great, I did a little research over time and I completely missed Trama. the craziest ones I could find were James Hare and his classmate Matt Moore; I figured weak Central League and Chesmont teams were a good place to look. Anybody know if Chris Coates from Rustin ever made it?
ReplyDeleteOh those are strong! Completely missed Hare, he's probably #1 considering 1:56/4:21/9:43 with a ton of mid to low 4:20 miles on his resume ... I kinda assumed he had made it one year indoors, but looks like he barely missed qualifying ... Very impressive career
DeleteCoates qualified for XC states his senior year. Chris Kienzle could could be another notable name.
DeleteHare was another who hit the SQL but got screwed by D1 limits.
DeleteThat and he was basically garbage at cross until his senior year. Think he got injured at the end of that season
DeleteOk, who wasn't a top guy in high school who got real good and to another level in college?
ReplyDeleteMatt Gillette District 11 was a good HS runner 4:20 / 9:19. He improved throughout his college career to reach D2 All American status. 1500 3:46, 3K 8:09, 5K (track) 14:15, 10K XC 30:00.50.
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