As of right now, here are my guesses for the Indoor State Qualifying cut offs. This assumes that the PTFCA will actually accept only the exact number of individuals/teams they list on their site. That being said, I'm assuming they will consider adding a few extra guys here and there considering, as of now, basically every event has a couple guys/teams that really deserve and want to get in with the SQG but are projected to be left home. So keep your fingers crossed ....
Here's a link to my work, not including the State College Invite Results (which I haven't been able to find). Let me know your thoughts and when the actual performance list comes out, I'll be sure to get the link up here and let you know what all the heats will look like based on the seed times.
Hope you all are having a lovely day.
Editors Note: etrain has released his tentative post schedule from now until states here. Be sure to let him know if there's something missing!
Updated @ 4:05 PM: The Performance List is Up! Check it out on penntrack here. Thoughts on the list still left to come ...
Last year, it looks like there were about 9 teams who had the SQG in the 4x8 that got left home (PTFCA didn't want to add another 4x8 heat). Since they took 13 in the 3k (Knapp had the SQG) no other individual or team was affected by the new qualification set up and, in fact, it actually added a few distance runners to the meet who otherwise would have just missed the time.
ReplyDeleteOn the flip side, this year there are teams in every event with the SQG who I project could be left home. It will be interesting to see if the PTFCA will stretch the field size a bit to allow more runners who have the qualifying standards in places where the extra runners won't need another heat (like the 3k). I'm hoping they strongly consider it (we've had like 20 guys in a 3k heat before).
The other complicating factor here is the doubling up of teams in the relays. I've been told by a few people that the PTFCA is saying if you enter a B team, you will be banned from the meet next year. How they plan to enforce that (haven't seen any advertising of it) or judge what constitutes a B team is beyond me, but it's what I've heard could be in play. But even if teams enter A squads in both relays (I see this happening a bunch) it cuts out a number of teams that would otherwise be in attendance any other year that have run well under the SQG. Very intrigued to see how this plays out.
Lastly, the gotta change the SQG in the 4x8. With all due respect, that time isn't particularly quick and is intended for a two heat 4x8 final at states. Clearly the PTFCA doesn't want two heats so they should change the standard and stop misleading people.
From the PTFCA website: "STATE 4 X 800 / DMR ENTRY - IF A SCHOOL ENTERS BOTH THESE RELAYS, THEY MUST RUN AN "A" TEAM IN BOTH. IF YOU RUN A "SUB PAR" TEAM IN EITHER RACE, YOU WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO RUN EITHER RELAY IN 2017"
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand the intent of the rule, I agree that it cannot be effectively enforced and I doubt that a team could be banned from participating in an event the following year. The same message could have been expressed more effectively by simply stating that in order to maintain the quality and integrity of a state championship meet, it is expected that teams field relays capable of meeting or exceeding the qualifying guideline for the event.
Ah, hadn't seen this before now. Thanks for pointing this out.
DeleteHow would they even determine if someone is running a B team or if an A team ran really poorly?
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. Maybe they have a list of the names that were on each original qualifying relay? Even still, I think it's a difficult speculatory game to play.
DeleteWhat about like a half "B" team? Like you run a couple guys from your "A" team and couple guys from your "B" team? There are multiple teams that could do that and still be very competitive for medals. Some teams even qualified for states with "B" teams so to speak.
Acceptance list is up- http://pa.milesplit.com/articles/176092-2016-ptfca-indoor-state-championships-acceptance-list
ReplyDeleteInvitations are out
ReplyDeleteNo Hockenbury in the 3000?
ReplyDeleteDahl is in 3 relays- interesting
ReplyDeleteI believe GFS has the same 6 guys listed for each of their three relays. Pretty sick range for that group.
DeleteReally worried about no Hockenbury at the 3k. This will give Brophy an easy shot at a 3k title and more legs to run the DMR with.
ReplyDeleteShocked CR North got into the 4x800, but excited to see these young guys run :)
Lastly, the rule of 'running an A team' is ridiculous. What happens if it's the same team from earlier in the day (thinking of North's DMR of 10:45 to their 4x8 race of 8:21 this weekend) that just doesn't have the legs to double, but they're all technically 'A' team material? Too many weird factors here. Also who was on the team that qualified vs the team that runs. We see this happen a decent amount in 4x8's at states or districts with top tier runners helping with qualification and dropping the event.
It's funny. The PTFCA is now allowing both distance relays to be entered. That's a cool wrinkle and it will make for a more exciting final as 7 teams are trying to win both, however that does leave 7 teams home that otherwise wouldn't have been competing. If I'm a coach of one of those 7 teams and I see somebody running a full on "B" squad at states, I'm going to naturally be upset. That being said, if I'm a coach on one of those teams who is qualified in both races, I'm going to enter two relays 100% of the time, even if I have to throw in a "B" squad. There was only one relay that scratched out of the entire meet (Seneca Valley) who easily could have thrown in a "B" squad and it been justified in my eyes (and they got robbed from the DMR so they probably should have).
ReplyDeleteWay back in the day, when I went to Upper Dublin, we qualified as a 4x8 for states because our anchor leg, Sam Ellison, literally put us on his back and carried us to states. Then, at states, he didn't race the 4x8 and we entered almost a complete "B" team (just one of the original 4). The guys went and performed really well, had a fantastic time and came home with 4 PRs when the race was over. It was a great experience and I'm really happy our Coaches were able to do that.
But the difference was, back then, there was not limit on how many teams could be entered in a certain event. If you had the SQS you could run no matter what. So we got to run our "B" squad, but it didn't stop anybody else from running their "A" squad. Everybody wins in this scenario in my opinion.
Or, at least, all the runners and coaches do. The people who don't are the people at PSU who are demanding a shorter meet and (maybe, but probably not) a few fans who are upset about how many races there are.
Again, just my two cents. Sorry everybody, seems like I'm in a ranting mood today. I'll be over it soon and ready to talk about states predictions and fun stuff!
Spoke too soon about Seneca Valley being robbed .... As I was typing this comment, the performance list got updated to reflect them getting in ....
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